subcooler Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Phil turns 70 in a month or two, and Bobby is not far behind. The average life expectancy of a US male is 75.6 according to the UN. It's not exactly rocket science. Trying to not be confrontational, but...... Les Paul played shows while approaching 90! How does your rocket science theory account for that? Peace, Rob Thanks for the update on Phil's age-There must be someone out there who was unaware he'll be 70 shortly ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subcooler Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Co-opetition AndDave, I pasted part of the link you included here for anyone who cares to read it-Then maybe you can explain how this is the case between Furthur & DSO. Or you can just ignore this whole thing as I'm starting to wish I just ignored it myself when first reading this ridiculous thread! Coopetition or Co-opetition (sometimes spelled "coopertition" or "co-opertition") is a neologism coined to describe cooperative competition. Co-opetition occurs when companies work together for parts of their business where they do not believe they have competitive advantage, and where they believe they can share common costs. For instance, the cooperation between Peugeot and Toyota on shared components for a new city car for Europe in 2005. In this case, companies will save money on shared costs, while remaining fiercely competitive in other areas. For co-opetition to work, companies need to very clearly define where they are working together, and where they are competing Peace, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advisory Board Herdygerdy Posted February 24, 2010 Advisory Board Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 but I know Maine will be a better environment for camping than All Good... Have you ever been to Maine in the dead of Summer? It's friggin HOT bro... Went up to Limestone, Maine years back for Phish's "IT" festival, and it was pretty damned hot up there!! Don't let the northern part of the map trick ya... There is NO COMPETITION in my book.There are original members of the GRATEFUL DEAD or people that imitate the real mambers.\ If you think that DSO imitate The Grateful Dead members, then The Grateful Dead members imitated alot of other musicians as alot of their songs in rotation over the years were "cover songs" so to speak... because for me it's all searching for the sound ! AMEN!! If 2 monkeys, a zebra, a chinchilla, a donkey, and an ostrich could get up on stage and play the music the way I want to hear it, then I'd pay to see that shit too! Sure I love to see the boys up there playin, but i'm there for THE MUSIC!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP VincentPuleo Posted February 24, 2010 Author Forum MVP Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Have you ever been to Maine in the dead of Summer? It's friggin HOT bro... Went up to Limestone, Maine years back for Phish's "IT" festival, and it was pretty damned hot up there!! Don't let the northern part of the map trick ya... This is true, but there is no way it will be hotter than West Virginia (where all good is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lisacat Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 AMEN!! If 2 monkeys, a zebra, a chinchilla, a donkey, and an ostrich could get up on stage and play the music the way I want to hear it, then I'd pay to see that shit too! Sure I love to see the boys up there playin, but i'm there for THE MUSIC!! don't we already have a donkey or two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP lookyloo Posted February 24, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 don't we already have a donkey or two? We do, but I didn't think they let Herdy on stage ;?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lisacat Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 We do, but I didn't think they let Herdy on stage ;?) maybe now they will. I heard he can play the triangle pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP chuckvegas Posted February 24, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I'd be totally down with the chinchilla and the ostrich. Plus Muskrat Suzie and Muskrat Slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty the Scoob Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Trying to not be confrontational, but...... Les Paul played shows while approaching 90! How does your rocket science theory account for that? Peace, Rob Thanks for the update on Phil's age-There must be someone out there who was unaware he'll be 70 shortly ! Confront me all you want, I can take it, especially when you're so far off base from reality. I saw Les Paul in his late 80s. It was mindboggling that somebody could play that well at that age.. his fingers were slowed down but his musicianship was there and his mind was sharp. The odds are pretty good that most of us won't age that well, although I'll agree that Phil sure seems to be doing a nice job so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP anddave Posted February 24, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 regarding coopetition i was being a little glib. wikipedia's definition is overly strict imo regarding furthur and dso they look like competing businesses on paper but their musical approaches are (to many of us) complementary in that we are interested in what both are doing. They (whether intentionally or not) cooperate to provide us with twice as much of "our" music as we had last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subcooler Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Confront me all you want, I can take it, especially when you're so far off base from reality. I saw Les Paul in his late 80s. It was mindboggling that somebody could play that well at that age.. his fingers were slowed down but his musicianship was there and his mind was sharp. The odds are pretty good that most of us won't age that well, although I'll agree that Phil sure seems to be doing a nice job so far. Rusty, Let me start of by saying "I prefer not to be confrontational with anyone. yourself included!" Your reply does have me a bit confused though: First it starts of " Confront me all you want, I can take it, especially when you're so far off base from reality."- Then it goes on to end by agreeing with the very point I was making (Phil's aging gracefully) ! It seems to me, If I was so far off base from reality,you would have cited an example that disagreed with my comment? In any event, I am not trying to argue with anyone, just stating an opinion which differs from your own (many folks seem to feel Furthur is a 2yr band). I think Furthur will be around long enough to sell out Red Rocks, maybe I'm wrong (maybe it will happen in > 2 yr.'s-Who know's (I'm not the amazin' Kreskin) Peace, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty the Scoob Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 My sentiment and the point that I'm trying to make is that however long Furthur lasts, GD tribute bands will be around longer. and makes great music but only because Phil and Bobby made it first. Really I was put off by the lack of perspective I see in posts like this one below... this really put me off and I overreacted to yours as a result only because it was more recent. enjoy whichever scene you choose , and this goes to all of us , but remember which band busted their ass for the past 12 years giving up the goods ... Last time I checked the Warlocks formed in Dana Morgan's music store a bit more than 12 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deadheadmike Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 My sentiment and the point that I'm trying to make is that however long Furthur lasts, GD tribute bands will be around longer. and makes great music but only because Phil and Bobby made it first. Really I was put off by the lack of perspective I see in posts like this one below... this really put me off and I overreacted to yours as a result only because it was more recent. Last time I checked the Warlocks formed in Dana Morgan's music store a bit more than 12 years ago. Maybe this will put you off a little more ... I'm passing up on all Furthur shows after this Sat in AC , AND , flying out to the west coast in Feb just to catch some DSO tour with Stu Allen , AND , got a date with Cubensis while out west ... not to mention a big east coast DSO tour this spring/summer ... I stood in front of Jerry Garcia and the Grateful Dead a couple hundred plus times ... no need to tell me where the music came from , I was there to see a good portion of it unfold ... have a nice day . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Jones Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 My idea of Furthur and how long they will be around has changed a bit. I used to think that they were going to be around for a short while to have some fun and make some cash. Now I think it goes something like this: Bobby and Phil became aware of DSO's success and growing fanbase. They saw this as someone else capitalizing on their legacy and decided to take ownership of it. I can now imagine Furthur as being a continuous band that passes the torch down to each new member and generates (contractual) royalties to the original members even after they've retired from the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP VincentPuleo Posted February 24, 2010 Author Forum MVP Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 that seems right... still though, there are two ends... Furthur was not created purely in an effort to "take" John away from DSO. I really feel some people believe this. Phil and Bobby finally were past there differences and re-discovered there love for playing with each other. I think that is a beautiful thing. It is definitely something that is real and the music that has been played lately is a testament to that. Bobby has always respected DSO which also shows this isn't some strange plot. Despite what Jill Lesh's strange setlist and business plans are, John is playing with Phil and Bobby in one of the greatest post Grateful Dead incarnations, that is something we all are aware of. So, for all viewing it in a "good & evil" kind of way you can continue to do that.. that really is not how it is though. It is something that created an amazing opportunity and experience that any member of DSO would have jumped into for John, it has given Phil and Bobby a sense of musical rebirth and it has let us continue to experience the creators of this music that has enriched everyone's lives so much, and it is has put DSO into a serious transition that has been hard yet amazing in the sense that it showed how strong the band is and how the music has not suffered. so, can we please get back to the Nateva Festival... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deadheadmike Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 so, can we please get back to the Nateva Festival... Rock On , my man !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Jones Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 My idea of Furthur and how long they will be around has changed a bit. I used to think that they were going to be around for a short while to have some fun and make some cash. Now I think it goes something like this: Bobby and Phil became aware of DSO's success and growing fanbase. They saw this as someone else capitalizing on their legacy and decided to take ownership of it. I can now imagine Furthur as being a continuous band that passes the torch down to each new member and generates (contractual) royalties to the original members even after they've retired from the band. Vincent, just to clarify, I don't see this as good or evil. Mostly I put it out there as a discussion point. Rock on Nateva! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deadheadmike Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Vincent, just to clarify, I don't see this as good or evil. Mostly I put it out there as a discussion point. Rock on Nateva! I don't see it as choosing between good or evil either ... honestly , its more of a comfort zone choice , maybe somewhat financial and most important my taste in music ... I love how DSO performs the music , the ticket prices are more affordable ( you get a lot of GRATE music for around $30.00 ) along with the size of the venues that DSO performs at and my friends that attend the shows keep me right in my comfort zone ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP nwnj steve Posted February 25, 2010 Forum MVP Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 that seems right... still though, there are two ends... Furthur was not created purely in an effort to "take" John away from DSO. Don't count on it . I wouldn't put it past Phil & Jill one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutrino Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 My idea of Furthur and how long they will be around has changed a bit. I used to think that they were going to be around for a short while to have some fun and make some cash. Now I think it goes something like this: Bobby and Phil became aware of DSO's success and growing fanbase. They saw this as someone else capitalizing on their legacy and decided to take ownership of it. I can now imagine Furthur as being a continuous band that passes the torch down to each new member and generates (contractual) royalties to the original members even after they've retired from the band. From my understanding from speaking to a Mill Valley insider, you are essentially correct about the initial motivations. I don't know how much Bobby had to do with this, as his name was not brought up. Since Bobby had played with DSO, I suspect he didn't have a problem with the band. However, I was informed that Phil was getting royally pissed off to see DSO selling more tickets than he could do in similar or even identical venues with his P&F configurations. He just didn't understand how this could happen, but it would seem that getting JK on his bus might nip this bud. It is also quite possible he genuinely wanted to return to the classic GD sound, so that getting JK on board solved this issue at the same time. The topic of Phil's desire to get the Jerry sound back for simple musical motivations never arose in any conversation I had. Maybe yes--maybe no. Regarding you second point about Furthur being an ongoing concern after Phil and Bobby are done--I'm highly skeptical. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it just I just can't imagine it. happening What I wish HAD happened was that Phil could have seen the merit in what DSO was doing. Then JK might have returned to DSO when Furthur was done with Phil's blessings, along with the new chops he picked up with Furthur. It is also possible that I'm being too hard on Phil, and his wife is more involved with all of this. I am continually surprised to learn of here deep involvement in Phil's career. I'm really not trying to stir things up here. I dig both bands and hope for the best for each of them. I'm just stating my opinions, some of which is based on very good information from others who are in a position to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP VincentPuleo Posted February 25, 2010 Author Forum MVP Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Vincent, just to clarify, I don't see this as good or evil. Mostly I put it out there as a discussion point. Rock on Nateva! Oh yes, I know you weren't... I was just yappin'... and I understand the comfort zone thing mike.. I was just replying to all who are only looking for the dark side of Furthur when really there is no dark side. If Jill Lesh had bad intentions that is fine and unless someone talked to Phil personally it may be beyond our understanding... but when you see Phil and Bobby looking at JK with pure love! and when you see Jeff Mattson make a venue lift off the ground with DSO! you know everything is all good on both sides of the spectrum.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deadheadmike Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Oh yes, I know you weren't... I was just yappin'... and I understand the comfort zone thing mike.. I was just replying to all who are only looking for the dark side of Furthur when really there is no dark side. If Jill Lesh had bad intentions that is fine and unless someone talked to Phil personally it may be beyond our understanding... but when you see Phil and Bobby looking at JK with pure love! and when you see Jeff Mattson make a venue lift off the ground with DSO! you know everything is all good on both sides of the spectrum.. I just finished giving my Beagle a bath , she sure did need one , smelly dog ... all the while I'm bathing her I was thinking of you and how your just keeping the faith and keeping a positive attitude while a couple of us older guys are all cranky and shit ... anyway , the way that I've been posting lately wouldn't lead you to believe that I have GREAT love for Bob and Phil , they were members of my favorite band and I've had some of the best times of my life because of the Grateful Dead , also , how much I admire JK and the young members of Furthur for their hard work and this amazing achievement ... I can only imagine the constant WOW going on for them as they go from venue to venue , that shot of Radio City from behind Joe Russo's kit put that in perspective for me ... anyway , keep the faith my man !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP VincentPuleo Posted February 25, 2010 Author Forum MVP Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 I always will deadheadmike! and there isn't a doubt in my mind that everyone here has love for Phil and Bobby.. I'm glad your Beagle is clean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimo Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 I'm planning on going to Gratefulfest. I've been going since 2005. As long as I am able (the only thing that may affect attendance is my responsibilities as a father), I'll go to Gfest. I'm planning on going to nlqp at least 3 times this year. There ain't no place I'd rather be. My personal choice: if DSO and Furthur are playing in two separate venues 20 miles away from my house, I'd go see DSO. My opinion: The JK departure is still a sour issue. There are people on this board that know the specifics on how it went down and every now and then, you see a comment about it. I don't know how it went down so don't ask me. Based on this, I feel every time someone prefers to go to see Furthur over DSO (when its possible someone can make either show) and posts it on DSO forum, its a slap in the face to DSO. This is just my opinion. I understand some people will go to a certain festival over others based on where they live. Just be mindful you are at dsoforums.net and explain your reasons ahead of time before someone takes your post as offensive to DSO. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Jones Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Jimo, This band and all discussions of it have been relegated to this corner of the forum. I personally have no problem discussing Furthur here amongst friends and feel that if one doesn't want to discuss it then they simply need not open this thread. Much like a radio station, If you don't like it you can change the channel. I don't need to profess my support of one band over another and feel very much that I'll attend whatever show works best for me and my situation. Both DSO and Furthur are playing the music I love. I always will deadheadmike! and there isn't a doubt in my mind that everyone here has love for Phil and Bobby.. I'm glad your Beagle is clean! Houston, The Beagle has landed!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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