Forum MVP Mango Posted July 8, 2011 Forum MVP Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 He said shotgun, not gun, so its candyman. Come on deadfan get it straight! ;b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadfan Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 He said shotgun, not gun, so its candyman. Come on deadfan get it straight! ;b Ur right.... my bad! Now I understand... but I don't think that was jerry's way of saying he is against drugs but rather the dealer who sits there with his jewelry ware. Also, I don't think it has todo with psychadelics as much as cocaine and heroine. Thanks for the correction! Can't hardley believe I made that mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP New York Steve Posted July 8, 2011 Forum MVP Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Ur right.... my bad! Now I understand... but I don't think that was jerry's way of saying he is against drugs but rather the dealer who sits there with his jewelry ware. Also, I don't think it has todo with psychadelics as much as cocaine and heroine. Thanks for the correction! Can't hardley believe I made that mistake. Don't think jerry was responsible for those lyrics.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP John A Posted July 8, 2011 Forum MVP Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 ...I think jerry played better in his psychadelic tripping days than he did in his cocaine heroin days. I definitely think that jerry played better on lsd and there was never a show where he didn't smoke some pot before hand and during. In fact, bob tripped last yr during the nokia show and he really did a better job. ... I agree that Jerry played better in his tripping days. My point was that had there never been any cocaine/heroin days then his music, and that of the Dead, would have been better for it. Just my opinion, of course. I don't think pot had a profound effect either way. As for the assertion that Bobby was tripping at the Nokia show, you don't know that. Only that Phil, for whatever reason, decided to publicly cast the situation in that light the next evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadfan Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I am pretty sure he was... many a source said that someone dosed him... now he did have a mulligan so to speak when he had to restart but once he restarted it was one hell of a show. My take is that he started trippilg, realized it, adjusted and played an awesome show.I have never known of another time when he or they stopped completely like that to start over. Dso did it at irving plaza but that was cuz the sound was wrong. It was apparent that bobby was faultering thru the first try at el paso but like I said he really played a killer show after that. Actually I first heard the rumour that som1 dosed him that same night, not the next... actually I was at the vibes the next day (listening to dso) and this is the first that I hear that phil remarked on the topic. But why disbelieve the news or phil? Why would it b a lie? Maybe u don't want to believe such things but me thinks there is a reason why u choose not to believe the news, the chatter and phil. What would b the point in making it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Tom Banjo Posted July 8, 2011 Forum MVP Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 It's all about the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP chuckvegas Posted July 8, 2011 Forum MVP Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 It's all about the music. Amen. And some of the best advise I've ever heard, is that if you get confused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Mango Posted July 8, 2011 Forum MVP Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Amen. And some of the best advise I've ever heard, is that if you get confused... ....spin around in circles until it does make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP comesatime Posted July 8, 2011 Forum MVP Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 ....spin around in circles until it does make sense? look between Rob E and Lisa , about 6 people back from the rail and witness the the spinning proof ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadfan Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 No disrespect but your poll in my opinion is white noise. I do not think it is a fair fight as it relates to the Gravitas of Music -v- Drugs... To me its an insult to music and musicians in general to pose the question in those terms. Everyone experiences, feels and processes the music in their own individual and unique way. Similarly people who take drugs feel and processes them in the own individual and unique way.. Sometimes the two intersect and sometimes they do not....Music to me though stands alone as the Beacon.. Also the drug albatross around the Grateful Dead and Dead Music has always been overblown and unfair and frankly take away from the importance and historical significance of the musical product itself, which as everyone knows is hall of fame caliber both from the writing and the music end of things.. I mean your suggestion that those tripping were having a better time than those that were not is a stretch..I mean people have been dancing to the beats for Thousands of years......Way before Owsley Stanley came along..Not saying I have issues with that but to me..It is a very, very small part of the story....Some people will say that is a HUGE part of the story.. The music speaks for itself and does not need to be filtered through the prism of booze and drugs... Apples and Oranges...Just one guys opinion.. I never disrespected music or musicians. I stated some facts about the acid tests of days ago and if u unaware of such things then maybe u should do research b4 condemning me... and it is NOT a mistake that the gang decided to call themselves furthur - the name of the bus that was used by leary, garcia etc for the acid tests... it is also not a coincidence that their music is classified as psychedelic. I made some assertions about myself and how experienced the shows. If anything, I was unfair by saying that the trippers were having the most fun which is just my opinion.and I never made a blanket statement that included all music and all musicians. I think u need to re-read my init posting and relax dude... I'm not saying any of what u claim I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Dstone5553 Posted July 8, 2011 Forum MVP Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I am pretty sure he was... many a source said that someone dosed him... Then you'd be wrong. And your sources would be wrong. Just imagine that. But please, let us not talk about that night as it pertains to Mr. Weir. Just remember next time, try to understand that rumors around the GD scene are false 99.9 % of the time. Most of us learn that through the years and try to pass it on to others who haven't. Just some friendly advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadfan Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Its funny u put that video up... one of my fav songs and definitely love the msuic. The musical parts r so beautiful and I can say that I sincerely love tripping to this song cuz the words r grate but its the music that is so beatiful to me and this is 1 song full of expression .. like a man shouting out his love for this woman with real feeling and I certainly know what it is like to wake up in an empty bed. "You were gone! My heart was filled with dread!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadfan Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Deadfan- i appreciate your honesty. A lot of people probably feel a similiar way. Perhaps this internet forum isnt the best place for this discussion. U r probably right... not the best place to be having such discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadfan Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Then you'd be wrong. And your sources would be wrong. Just imagine that. But please, let us not talk about that night as it pertains to Mr. Weir. Just remember next time, try to understand that rumors around the GD scene are 99.9 % of the time false. Most of us learn that through the years and try to pass it on to others who haven't. Just some friendly advice. Ok... I am big enuff to say I am wrong.. just out of curiosity, how do u know I am wrong? Do u have a source elsewhere or r u close to or part of the band? (Certainly u don't have to answer any of those questions if u don't wanna, but then agin u know that :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Dstone5553 Posted July 8, 2011 Forum MVP Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Ok... I am big enuff to say I am wrong.. just out of curiosity, how do u know I am wrong? Do u have a source elsewhere or r u close to or part of the band? (Certainly u don't have to answer any of those questions if u don't wanna, but then agin u know that :-) Didn't I ask us (and I said 'please') not to talk about this night any furthur as it pertains to Mr. Weir? Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 if u unaware of such things then maybe u should do research b4 condemning me... and it is NOT a mistake that the gang decided to call themselves furthur - the name of the bus that was used by leary, garcia etc for the acid tests... it is also not a coincidence that their music is classified as psychedelic. I made some assertions about myself and how experienced the shows. I'm pretty confident that my knowledge base about the Grateful Dead, San Francisco, Tim Leary, Ken Kesey and the 60's in general far surpasses yours.. Wonder where I am getting that confidence level? Anyone? Seriously do you mind telling us your age? Just curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP Dstone5553 Posted July 8, 2011 Forum MVP Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 if u unaware of such things then maybe u should do research b4 condemning me... and it is NOT a mistake that the gang decided to call themselves furthur - the name of the bus that was used by leary, garcia etc for the acid tests... it is also not a coincidence that their music is classified as psychedelic. I made some assertions about myself and how experienced the shows. Wolfe's 'Electric Kool Aid Acid Test' is a FANTASTIC read and something that explains that whole thing. Leary was not part of it...the Merry Pranksters were, headed by Mr. Kesey. They visited notables like Leary and Keroac though, on their trip across this country. You will not regret reading that book deadfan...that's a promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octal Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 No. But I also don't think it would have been the same had Jerry Garcia not mastered the banjo and acoustic guitar before ever tripping, or if Phil Lesh hadn't studied Charles Ives, or if Bob Weir never walked into Dana Morgan's music store in Palo Alto on December 31, 1963, and so on. I have no quarrel with anyone who finds this music better when they're tripping than when they're not. Each to his own. But I'm hard pressed to find it reported anywhere that Garcia said drugs made him compose or perform better. The sonic record during his descent into addiction confirms that it did not. It was once said that the reason DSO is more successful than other dead cover bands is that they were musicians before they were dead heads. Who else were musicians before they were dead heads? The Grateful Dead. Think about it. It should not be claimed that LSD always makes you have a better time (nor should it be claimed that it always makes you have a worse time). Some people do not like to trip. Sometimes you get bad dose. Sometimes you get sent to jail. Sometimes you find yourself standing so far in a shaft of light that you can no longer hear the music. Maybe standing in a shaft of light is beautiful, but what about a Dionysian involvement to the music and only the music? It should be noted that Dionysus was the God of Intoxication, yet sometimes intoxication moves you away from him. Lots of people smile on LSD, however. Obviously someone can't talk about the LSD experience if they've never taken LSD. But can someone who has continually used drugs talk about sobriety? After drug use my consciousness, even while "sober", has become flimsy (my first drug use was at a young age: 12. This probably has not helped "normal" brain development). My sensory experience seems a little too strange, waxing and waning. Although this brings the question of trying to experience someone else's experience, i.e. "when I see red do you see red?" Playing on drugs: Just because it "worked" for Jerry that does not mean it will work for everyone else. The music is undeniably drug-influenced. It was born out of acid. As far as I know, they had (excluding Bob, who stopped around 68?, T.C. and Pigpen) taken LSD continually until the very early 70s. They did not stop drug use, however. Would it have been better if they stayed with LSD? They were getting bored of acid, "balls on the walls psychedelic music." They began to move on. Ken Kesey talked (although he was legally obligated to, I think he may have believed this) about moving beyond acid. It opens a door, but can you just walk back and forth through it? Thinking mathematically while on drugs tends to be more difficult. This is an argument against playing better on drugs. However, by this point in time of their career much of the "mathematical" stuff (scales, modes, harmonic values, etc.) had been internalized. It would just "flow" out, almost from the unconscious. But one may try to say that drugs can "improve" the music being played because it makes the player feel the music more (when it does, other times it may just isolate him from it), and thus it creates more emotional music. However this is dependent on the musician being able to translate his feeling into his instrument. Drugs tend to mess with my musical ear, so I can't hear (or transpose) the melody inside my head to the guitar as easily. The music that comes out has an emotion to it, i.e. the audience can get a feeling from it, but who says that feeling is the same as what I am trying to convey? (And then the partially related question can be asked: if all of the music theory (or even the archetypal riffs that one plays off of) has been internalized into the unconscious, the notes being played don't really come from the "heart." And even the scales we expect to hear have been internalized.). Tripping is a very flimsy thing. One moment is golden, and the next you feel the impending doom upon your shoulders. Then you're rising up to paradise, but this paradise turns out to be a nightmare. You cannot expect drugs to be a stable experience. They alter your experience. To try to create a dogma out of something that is so unstable cannot be done. Anyway, this thread is moving in the wrong direction. Deadfan is being a little too preachy (and the terrible grammar--which tends to be a sign of lack of education--doesn't help for presenting an argument about drugs), and everyone else is getting a little to hostile toward him. How about we all drop some acid, hold hands, and make up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP cm_hayden Posted July 8, 2011 Forum MVP Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Three pages in less than one day, guess it's true most people are interested in sex and drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP chuckvegas Posted July 8, 2011 Forum MVP Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Three pages in less than one day, guess it's true most people are interested in sex and drugs. And it all started as a purported interest in rock'n'roll. The trifecta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conti Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I wish I could remember half the shows I saw in my youth while ingesting all the fun stuff. Now that I'm quite a bit older I just wish I could remember what I walked into this room for?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP comesatime Posted July 9, 2011 Forum MVP Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 I wish I could remember half the shows I saw in my youth while ingesting all the fun stuff. Now that I'm quite a bit older I just wish I could remember what I walked into this room for?! I'm right there with ya !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbones Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Man this is all really silly...Very entertaining though...Nothing really to hold on to or get worked up about...Sober or high it don't matter. I have a controversial concept that i have no way of proving. I've always figured that a "square" type person understanding a deadheads love of the music is futile because I would venture to declare there are not many hardcore grateful Dead "lifers' that have not dosed in there lives. Its definitely part of the equation to understanding the love that we all have for the music. Whether you took it once back in the day or still do it helped create who you are and how you hear the music...Its still in there. If Im wrong and there is folks out there that have never....then my hypothesis has been proven wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanAY Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Man this is all really silly...Very entertaining though...Nothing really to hold on to or get worked up about...Sober or high it don't matter. I have a controversial concept that i have no way of proving. I've always figured that a "square" type person understanding a deadheads love of the music is futile because I would venture to declare there are not many hardcore grateful Dead "lifers' that have not dosed in there lives. Its definitely part of the equation to understanding the love that we all have for the music. Whether you took it once back in the day or still do it helped create who you are and how you hear the music...Its still in there. If Im wrong and there is folks out there that have never....then my hypothesis has been proven wrong.... Well, I'm certainly no lifer or hardcore Head, but this is my favorite music in the world and I've never touched the sacrament haha! The complexity of the deep jams, the constant swing from calm to fury to calm...man, I love this stuff. The adrenaline and energy I get from seeing the music live through DSO and Furthur, as well as other jambands on the circuit (moe., UM, et al.) is all I need. Oh, and the occasional frosty brew or two or three. Those are nice too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbones Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Well, I'm certainly no lifer or hardcore Head, but this is my favorite music in the world and I've never touched the sacrament haha! The complexity of the deep jams, the constant swing from calm to fury to calm...man, I love this stuff. The adrenaline and energy I get from seeing the music live through DSO and Furthur, as well as other jambands on the circuit (moe., UM, et al.) is all I need. Oh, and the occasional frosty brew or two or three. Those are nice too As far as Im concerned...anyone that is a regular here is hardcore....anyway there you have it....My hypothesis is crushed. The next question is did you see the GD....because if you managed to make your way through the contagious abyss of psychedelic rebirth that was a Grateful Dead show....Im impressed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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