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TnJed#48

DeaD and Co., thoughts?

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I like what he said there. I haven't hated this band and believe me I wanted too. I did not want to reject my preconceived notions. On the other hand, I don't want to exaggerate my opinion of the music overall. Dso crushed anything I've heard dead and co play last night in chesterfield va.

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DSO has many legs up on overall prowess, but it appears the Dead + Co vibe is real.  Mayer seems to have the requisite respect for the intricacies for this music and the community it creates and sustains.  I'm assuming his PR person didn't feed him the line - he's seems genuine in his reverence and appreciation.    

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Definitely shows the power of this music to have him go from the quotes Rude put up earlier in the thread to that. Bravo

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IMHO, the difference between D&C and the Grateful Dead at their best jams I s that Jerry thought musically in paragraphs and Mayer thinks sentences, sometimes the same one several times, stringing segmented thoughts together. 

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Besides the fact deadco cannot do a full band sing transition(watch how either the drummers or guitarists will drop out on a transition until the new song is established), the big difference to me is the slow as fuck tempo. It’s unbearably slow at times. 

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22 hours ago, Rude said:

Besides the fact deadco cannot do a full band sing transition(watch how either the drummers or guitarists will drop out on a transition until the new song is established), the big difference to me is the slow as fuck tempo. It’s unbearably slow at times. 

 

word....

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To me, the Grateful Dead has always been on a completely different plane of existence as opposed to any other musical entity. There’s music..... and then there’s Grateful Dead music!  Dead and Company surely struggle to play Grateful Dead music in any fashion tiger inspires.  Plain and simple......they don’t have it in them to do the music any justice.  Unfortunately, none of them have achieved any sort of musical growth or re-birth in their old age. The original members are trotting out the same songs in varying groups and duos. I have seen very few musical greats transform themselves into something more fitting to their age and energy level. The originals certainly have not. There is a band out there (dso) that is generally playing GD music to the limits of its potential. Dead and company is a novelty act. Makes me wonder what the non- deadhead perspective is, as the originals have spent almost half their careers in post GD bands that never quite got there. Have they tarnished there reputation?  If your first Grateful Dead experience was Phil singing half a concert, and bobby doing Jerry covers.....would you have gotten the bus?

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33 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Have they tarnished there reputation?  If your first Grateful Dead experience was Phil singing half a concert, and bobby doing Jerry covers.....would you have gotten the bus?

No and Yes. 

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I don’t buy into this Mayer has the respect of the scene and community. He seems to have respect from the masses.  Those who carry this music the scene and this community forward. The pillars of the community seem to be torn on this. Lots of heads just waiting for the Mayer contract to run out. Furthur is almost universally considered a stronger band. I know quite a few people who don’t even think dead and co is worth seeing. 

 

Mayer doesn’t have my respect. No quotes that I do think his PR rep feeds him will change that. When I see him on lot buying a burrito kicking it with the masses maybe I will start to come around. 

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Dead & Co. is worth the time & $$$....it is a magnificent show. From a musical stand point, they take the GD music to the next level, beyond the drug induced jams. The musical depth & knowledge is clearly evident in each of these musicians, and they show case the maximum potential of the music.  

 

I found DSO by hunting on YouTube after seeing a sticker on the truck of my best friend, who is a longtime Dead Head. The refreshing difference in this band, unlike Dead & Co. is they let the music breathe. Egos are set aside, and music is more in the moment rather than showcased.

 

Both are worth experiencing for different reasons. I'd like to see DSO in FL, but I'm not into festivals. Hoping they come to us in a different situation sometime.

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9 hours ago, Trayster2 said:

From a musical stand point, they(dead and co) take the GD music to the next level, beyond the drug induced jams. The musical depth & knowledge is clearly evident in each of these musicians, and they show case the maximum potential of the music.  

 

Sounds like someone has never listened to the Grateful Dead or a troll or both. Never heard anyone think deadco was better. No one. Then you say they take it beyond the grateful dead’s “Drug induced” jams. Wtf does that even mean.  To make these kinds of nonsense statements just to act like a troll isn’t cool here. I assume you are trolling as no one on the planet could think deadco is a better product than the dead. It’s silly even to contemplate. I get if you are young and seeing shows for the 1st time, but don’t want to burst your bubble but deadco is nowhere near the level of the dead, Dso, JRAD, hell even hyryder and other bar bands I’ve seen.  They have a big PA system and a big light system which is cool AF and the big event is fun, but when you throw the word musically in, the conversation changes and making comparisons with the original with Jerry?  Huh?  I shouldn’t have wasted time even responding. Of course I’m being trolled but whatever 

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I like this band....actually....and seem to remember a few that were there in chicago that were having a real good time,,,,,now, they have a big problem...fucking yawn....who gives a fuck what you think? and, you act like you own this board, yawn....,again....everyone is entitled to their opinion...yawn again...and thats mine...yawn again...for that matter, did you even see the GD? Prolly not? and.... a couple of us were the 7th and 8th people who signed up after Ron ( thank you Ron for everything you do ) started this thing up, yawn again...who cares? as my mommy said one time, if you have nothing good to say about something, then don't say it....yawn again....oops. sorry broke my mom's own suggestion/advice...just tired of listening to all of this crap...yawn again...and addition to that, I very rarely come on here because of trolls that control the banter here...yawn again...sorry, couldnt take it anymore...yawn, YAWN!!!

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When someone says the Grateful Dead played “drug induced jams” and deadco transcends that, why are they on this board?  Obviously to troll. I have no issue with liking deadco. I have issue with attacking the music we all love and calling Grateful Dead “drug induced jams”.

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16 hours ago, Rude said:

 

Sounds like someone has never listened to the Grateful Dead or a troll or both. Never heard anyone think deadco was better. No one. Then you say they take it beyond the grateful dead’s “Drug induced” jams. Wtf does that even mean.  To make these kinds of nonsense statements just to act like a troll isn’t cool here. I assume you are trolling as no one on the planet could think deadco is a better product than the dead. It’s silly even to contemplate. I get if you are young and seeing shows for the 1st time, but don’t want to burst your bubble but deadco is nowhere near the level of the dead, Dso, JRAD, hell even hyryder and other bar bands I’ve seen.  They have a big PA system and a big light system which is cool AF and the big event is fun, but when you throw the word musically in, the conversation changes and making comparisons with the original with Jerry?  Huh?  I shouldn’t have wasted time even responding. Of course I’m being trolled but whatever 

I didn't realize these boards would be all about attacking other posters' and their opinions.  I am a Grateful Dead and a DSO fan or I wouldn't have come here. 

 

To clarify, the word "induced" can be defined as follows:

 
"Succeed in persuading or influencing (someone) to do something.
Synonyms: persuade, convince, prevail upon, get, make, prompt, move, inspire, influence, encourage, motivate

 

GD would be the first to agree that they performed many a times under the influence, indicative to my meaning "drug induced jams."

 

Just curious, are you the moderator of these boards?

Edited by Trayster2
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Aw, I mean his name is Rude!! 💖

 

anyone have opinion on Mayer’s licks versus Jerry’s? But I swear in the PITS birdsong I spoke of it sounds like the guitar keeps saying F***, F***. Maybe it was “stuck” and the perception was just from my eyes. 

 

What is rivetjng to me is when the musical conversation seems to open up into holes but was a loosely crocheted sweater all along. That’s talent! 

 

 

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On 8/5/2016 at 8:30 AM, Tea said:

DSO has many legs up on overall prowess, but it appears the Dead + Co vibe is real.  Mayer seems to have the requisite respect for the intricacies for this music and the community it creates and sustains.  I'm assuming his PR person didn't feed him the line - he's seems genuine in his reverence and appreciation.    

 I hear evidence of progression and greater understanding in his playing- for sure 

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I don’t think my objection is really your piss poor understanding of the music they played calling it drug induced jams but your belief that Mayer and Dead and Co in anyway take this music to the next level. 

 

Jerry Garcia runs circles around John Mayer falling asleep on his chest so blitzed on herion he can hardly stand up.  Jerry sings and plays with more feeling than Mayer will ever understand. Jerry brings the soul. 

 

Now the true drug induced jams. Yes the boys were getting high. They used pyschedelic drugs and played on stage under their influence achieving a symbiosis together that Dead and Co hasn’t even scratched the surface of. 

 

So I like Rude struggle with how to respond to this new breed of Deadhead. How do we integrate into are community someone who actually thinks Mayer has more to offer than Garcia did?

 

That belief is so against the grain of what I believe it’s tough to stomach. 

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Dead and co sound ok, nothing remotely approaching the level of the Grateful Dead and Dark Star Orchestra, but ok. Mayer does alright with the music. He has great guitar chops, but nothing approaching the taste, restraint and delicacy that Garcia and Mattson can achieve. Most of it is lots and lots of notes, blues licks, harsh guitar tone. Tough to take him seriously when during (as an example I witnessed) a quiet part of Black Peter, Mayer was ripping these diarrhea of the blues scale fills a la Buddy Guy. Great where it belongs, like say Sweet Home Chicago, not during a tender number like Black Peter. If I may continue to be negative, I am not a fan of a whole set of Jerry songs sung by Bob and Mayer. Many setlists are Jerry after Jerry. I really enjoy the cadence set by the Grateful Dead in how they alternated the lead vocal duties more or less consistently. 

 

HOWEVER, everything I've said aside, I still enjoy a couple Dead and Co concerts in the summer, when I can get lawn seats cheap enough to justify attending. Fun to attend a big event, big scene, big lights, big sound, big everything. Kind of tough to shell out for a single Dead and Co ticket when I can buy three or more DSO tickets and be left slobbering at the end of each night. 

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Not for nothing, I also gotta jump in on the "beyond the drug induced jams" comment. Dead and Company have never come close to the inspired Dark Star that the Grateful Dead played on 8/27/72, a well documented concert where the entire band was high on LSD. Just not buying it. However, if dead and co make you feel good, and you like the music they play, and that is your opinion, then that is great. I am glad that Bob is still out there playing and making a difference in so many people's lives. 😃😃

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The fact that someone wrote something that caused someone else to legitimately feel the need to compare and contrast Dead & Co. to 8-27-72 speaks volumes. God bless the internet.

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I understand that John Mayer is a lightning rod......he's a little like "black licorice".

I think he is a super-talented guitarist....one of the best of his generation.  He left his pop roots behind him well before he ever joined Dead and Company, and became known as a guitar great.  Whether or not he has the soul or persona that makes him a good fit in this scene has certainly been a topic of debate.  Besides acknowledging his general skill as excellent....he doesn't do much for me. 

 

However, I think at times he is often scape-goated, and put forward as the problem with Dead and Company.

 

I do think there is a problem with Dead and Co (as well as Further in their later years)........and it's the original members, much more than whomever their guitarist of choice has been.  I  believe that they stopped respecting the high bar they set for themselves and have been putting forth a sub-par product. 

 

Some of these examples are instances of past years or past iterations of the Grateful Dead, but I think they illustrate the point. 

1) The pace of the songs is off.  It kills a lot of songs.

2) Phil Lesh is the worst singer I have ever heard get paid to sing a song.  It was a cool novelty when he sang Box of Rain with the GD, but if he is the lead singer of a band, then that's a problem.  Does he or any other original member really believe that Phil is a qualified vocalist?  Can they really not discern between quality singing and the singing of Phil Lesh?  When JK was a member of Further, why did Phil sing many songs?  Was it because he liked to sing or because they believed it was the best presentation of the music? 

3) Bobby cannot deliver a Jerry lyric?  they have completely different vocal stylings.  I love Bobby as a lyricist.....of his own songs.  He does not sing Jerry very well.  On a couple of occasions, the originals got some good vocalists....Joan Osborne, Susan Tedeschi, JK.  Again, when Further had a good lyricist (JK), why did Bob and Phil still sing many Jerry songs? 

4) Was Jill Lesh really the most qualified person to craft a setlist? 

5) And unfortunately, I think it goes back even further than that.  One day recently, I listened on youtube to live versions of the following songs; Corrina, Eternity, Samba in the Rain, Wave to the Wind, Mathilda, Easy Answers, Way to Go Home, Childhood's End.  We were bombarded with these songs every night in the 90's.  Come on!  You may like one or two......but in general, this stuff was not GD music. 

 

The original members have lost their fastball.  Of course they have.......they are in their 70's.  Unfortunately, they have also let the bar drop on what live GD music is.

I loved what Bobby did on his last solo, acoustic album.  Yes....the arenas are smaller.....but the re-invention was a breath of fresh air, as opposed to Bobby singing Jerry ballads.  They have the right to do anything they want and more power to them if they are experiencing selling out arenas. 

 

But I know what powerful and inspirational Dead music is.  Dead and Co is not it. 

Thank God for DSO recreations.....that is Grateful Dead music played at the outer limits of it's potential!

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And another thing.....while the post about "drug induced jams" does seem to miss the point a bit, I'd like to re-direct that conversation.

 

As it pertains to select drugs........I say bring-on the drug inducement! 

Without psychadelics and cannabis........this board wouldn't even be here.  Whatever those drugs induced in our music....I'll take it.

Cheers to drug induced jams!

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Deadco is a fun time. But they ain’t “fixing” dead music or making it better. Ive seen them 6x and enjoyed 5 of them. Their 1st tour was crap and they hid the boards so no one could hear them. That was the only time I thought it was horrible. I’ll see them at shoreline after Dso Berkeley. I plan to have a blast. But I’ve accepted the music for what it is. Unless you think Cumberland blues was too fast in 72 and they needed to cut the tempo in half, deadco hasn’t improved the Grateful Dead catalog. And if you think mayer>Jerry then Ron would likely ban before we saw the post. It’s like someone saying I love the devil on a church message board. That’s probably something no one here could abide and would be better suited for deadco Facebook where people are like what’s archive.org. 

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1 hour ago, Mojo Hand said:

I understand that John Mayer is a lightning rod......he's a little like "black licorice".

I think he is a super-talented guitarist....one of the best of his generation.  He left his pop roots behind him well before he ever joined Dead and Company, and became known as a guitar great.  Whether or not he has the soul or persona that makes him a good fit in this scene has certainly been a topic of debate.  Besides acknowledging his general skill as excellent....he doesn't do much for me. 

 

However, I think at times he is often scape-goated, and put forward as the problem with Dead and Company.

 

I do think there is a problem with Dead and Co (as well as Further in their later years)........and it's the original members, much more than whomever their guitarist of choice has been.  I  believe that they stopped respecting the high bar they set for themselves and have been putting forth a sub-par product. 

 

Some of these examples are instances of past years or past iterations of the Grateful Dead, but I think they illustrate the point. 

1) The pace of the songs is off.  It kills a lot of songs.

2) Phil Lesh is the worst singer I have ever heard get paid to sing a song.  It was a cool novelty when he sang Box of Rain with the GD, but if he is the lead singer of a band, then that's a problem.  Does he or any other original member really believe that Phil is a qualified vocalist?  Can they really not discern between quality singing and the singing of Phil Lesh?  When JK was a member of Further, why did Phil sing many songs?  Was it because he liked to sing or because they believed it was the best presentation of the music? 

3) Bobby cannot deliver a Jerry lyric?  they have completely different vocal stylings.  I love Bobby as a lyricist.....of his own songs.  He does not sing Jerry very well.  On a couple of occasions, the originals got some good vocalists....Joan Osborne, Susan Tedeschi, JK.  Again, when Further had a good lyricist (JK), why did Bob and Phil still sing many Jerry songs? 

4) Was Jill Lesh really the most qualified person to craft a setlist? 

5) And unfortunately, I think it goes back even further than that.  One day recently, I listened on youtube to live versions of the following songs; Corrina, Eternity, Samba in the Rain, Wave to the Wind, Mathilda, Easy Answers, Way to Go Home, Childhood's End.  We were bombarded with these songs every night in the 90's.  Come on!  You may like one or two......but in general, this stuff was not GD music. 

 

The original members have lost their fastball.  Of course they have.......they are in their 70's.  Unfortunately, they have also let the bar drop on what live GD music is.

I loved what Bobby did on his last solo, acoustic album.  Yes....the arenas are smaller.....but the re-invention was a breath of fresh air, as opposed to Bobby singing Jerry ballads.  They have the right to do anything they want and more power to them if they are experiencing selling out arenas. 

 

But I know what powerful and inspirational Dead music is.  Dead and Co is not it. 

Thank God for DSO recreations.....that is Grateful Dead music played at the outer limits of it's potential!

This is well stated. It's going to be different. You can't expect guys in their seventies to play at the same tempo as they did in their twenties and thirties. They've had to change some things to keep on going. I'm good with that and will have fun going to see them this summer with an open mind. I certainly enjoy the music being delivered at a DSO show more but I definitely still accept and respect the originals for what they are today. 

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I just saw Dead & Co. in Sunrise FL, for the first time, a few weeks back. Now I stopped counting Dead shows attended some time around 1982 and my count was somewhere between 40-50. I saw maybe 20 more after that. Maybe 10 JGB shows in and around NYC. I don't know how many DSO shows I have seen, but since 2001, I'd say somewhere between 50-60. I'm not a Mayer expert, but to the best of my recollection, the Dead & Co. show a couple weeks ago did not grab me like any of the 120 or so shows I saw from these other three bands.just sayinB)

Edited by sgrmag2564
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