John A

Well, prior to the hiatus China -> Rider was a first set thing. And when it returned to the rotation in '79 it closed first sets here and there, only to become a second set opener almost exclusively. In the '72 through '74 era, many songs that would eventually appear only in the first set would be sprinkled into second sets either before, or fascinatingly sometimes AFTER the big jam segment. Songs like Deal, Ramble On Rose, etc. But that's more an evolution of how shows would come to unfold than a set one / set two swap. Finally, it occurs that simultaneous to the Looks Like Rain flipflop, a major set two Bobby song permanently left the rotation - Lost Sailor. This all occurred in the Spring Tour '86, so I wonder aloud if there's a connection there...

She absolutely was a big part, and the Bobby / Donna LLR duets, spring '77 in particular, are the stuff of beauty. But as far as it moving to the second set, I don't see Donna having been a factor, as it was still a 1st set song for 6 years after her departure. I just found the about face curious. Something in spring '86 caused it to turn on a dime into a set 2 number.

Another random fun Dead song fact of the day: I knew the gist of this, as when I was officially on the bus in ‘86 Looks Like Rain was a second set song and I understood it had been more first set historically. But the sudden and almost complete reversal is interesting. Previously it was sprinkled into a 2nd set here and there but quite rarely. After the abrupt reversal on the Spring ‘86 East Cost tour it would only show up in the 1st set 4 more times. Twice on that tour itself, once in Summer ‘86, and the outliner being 7-4-89 in Buffalo. And you can't count JFK Stadium '87 on the Dead / Dylan tour because it was a single set show.

Well how 'bout that - if anyone read the breakdown of Scarlet Fire I posted recently, note one of the 3 Hell -> Fires has come back to life! 😁

Hard to beat a Truckin' -> Dark Star -> Dew. God bless '72 through '74. Easy to argue the greatest era (poor Mickey), not that I'm saying other era based arguments can't be well formed also.

Random fun Dead song lists fact of the day: On 12-29-77 at Winterland, The Dead played China → Rider. Sounds mundane enough, until one realizes that they retired both those songs during the hiatus. This is out of left field and the only appearance of China → Rider from Oct ‘74 through Feb ‘79, when they rejoined the rotation. As Jerry must’ve of course been feeling it that night at Winterland, it’s the only Rider → China Doll ever and features one of 7 Terrapin encores.

Now back to my regularly scheduled pedantic OCD Grateful Dead song analysis. 🤓 (With the requisite shout out to https://www.gratefulsets.net/, of course.) Here's some fun Scarlet/Fire facts for geeks who won’t roll their eyes (speaking for which, there was a Scarlet -> Eyes at Frost 4-27-85 😀)… There were 241 shows with both Scarlet and Fire, 238 of which were Scarlet -> Fire. Talk about a whoppingly high percentage! The other 3 were Scarlet -> Touch -> Fire twice in ’84 and an infamous (IMHO) Scarlet -> Victim -> Fire that I witnessed at Shoreline ’91. After the first iteration of Fire, Scarlet showed up 26 times with no Fire. That number surprises me; I’d have guessed somewhat lower. Only two instances were in the first set, not surprising at all. I saw what is perhaps the most notorious of these at Alpine Valley: Scarlet -> I Will Take You Home, and the bust out of the latter no less. A confusing moment at a Dead show to say the least. Curiously, I'd argue the hottest Scarlet of all time was two nights after the first Fire, a set 1 closing Scarlet -> Fire at Winterland 3-18-77. On 3-20-77, Scarlet closed set 1 and it absolutely shredded. Very much worth a listen for anybody unfamiliar. Finally, there were 12 appearances of Fire without a Scarlet. That would have been my ballpark guess. Some of these are pretty well known, such as the Olin Arageed -> Fire in Egypt, the Fire coming out of space at Radio City Halloween '80 that made it onto the Dead Set LP, and the Saturday Night -> Fire to open the show at Ventura '85. But one could argue the coolest of these was the ’91 Boston Garden Help -> Slip -> Fire, apparently sparked by Bruce Hornsby ribbing Jerry to shake things up. And lamely, again IMHO, there were three Hell -> Fires. That’s 25% of the naked Fires after all! 😲

Thanks all for the quality discourse, and thank you Rick for the apology. Consider it fully accepted. Brian - there couldn't be more truth to you sentiments. Well stated. Despite having bristled at Rick getting personal, I'll share a very personal thing. We effectively adopted an older and formerly homeless Filipino man who my son befriended when he was in his early teens. This gentlemen has now lived with us for close to 15 years. First he slept in a tent against the side of the house when no extra bedrooms were available, then in his own room when the kids started moving out. I'm not looking to pat myself on the back; the arrangement quickly evolved into the consummate win/win. He's a character, but a super sweet one. I virtually never take out the garage or recycling, he's quite handy in general around the house, he's endeared himself to the neighbors and does yard work and painting for many of them, he takes care of the dogs allowing us extended no worries travel, etc, etc. No one asked any of this of him, it just evolved organically. That's the kind of tiny anecdote that makes the world spin just a tad more brightly. Moreover, he's even become more than a bit of a Deadhead. Ha! All that said, you're all invited onto my yacht the next time you're in the south of France. 😜😂😊

Wow, I inadvertently struck a serious cord. I’d let that whole rant roll off me if not for the quoted bit above. With the caveat that my wife sometimes accuses me of not communicating so clearly, I don’t know how the context and tenor of my post could be that misconstrued. Of course we live in a different world price wise than when Jerry was with us, and of course I could have cited any number of examples where live music has become exorbitant. Hell, a friend recently paid $1,000 each for back of floor Springsteen tickets. And a 5-8-77 Barton Hall ticket stub says $7.50 ($6.50 for Cornell students!) - amazing. My analogy to DSO felt obvious because (a) their prices are just barely above the most a face value ticket ever cost to see Jerry, and (b) we’re on a DSO chat forum after all. I love witnessing younger Heads like you who were never able to see Jerry so passionately, profoundly, and palpably enmeshed in The Grateful Dead’s musical universe. That’s the future of this scene, and it’s a bright and wonderful thing to behold. What I don’t appreciate is you making it personal with me about money. Yes, I can buy more or less whatever I want. Although a yacht and the monthly rental for the berth to keep it in Saint-Tropez would hurt. 😂 But how does that change anything, much less the observation I was trying to innocently make? You said in another thread you were heading to Costa Rica. The air is great down there. Take a deep breath.

Most I paid to see Jerry was the final NYE ticket 12/31/91 - I think around $45. Now DSO costs more than that... 3x5 index cards and money orders indeed. Thanks for the memory!

I just read John Mayer‘s eulogy to Bobby from this afternoon. Very nice. I like how he was careful around mentioning Jerry. He did so just once, and used it to spin a great analogy, connecting a Jerry / Bobby sentiment with a newfound Bobby / John sentiment. He also did great on a solo acoustic Ripple, complete with thick sunglasses and a Bolero tie!

Warfield show announced (and sold out immediately) after Bobby's SF memorial tomorrow, and billed "Graham Lesh & Friends". All A-list musician who are in town anyway (Mayer, Trey, Dead drummers, who know who else?) are bound to want to participate. Seems there's huge potential and an emotional and epic evening at The Warfield.

I'm sure many here have read about this; in the late 60s (most likely late summer '68) The Dead actually tried to fire Bobby and Pigpen because Phil and Jerry were frustrated they couldn’t keep pace musically with the band's evolution. The story is as much legendary heresy as fact, but there's definitely more than a little something to it. One angle is it was Phil's idea, and he convinced Jerry to go along with it. Jerry being notoriously averse to confrontation, he had band management do it. The best the event can be pieced together is that it simply didn't take. Bobby and Pigpen kept showing up, and no one stopped them. So quintessentially Grateful Dead! This situation would repeat itself a decade later with Keith and Donna, this time in a very different fashion. Anyway, it's easy to understand that as of 1968 Bobby's playing was indeed stunted in relation to how Phil and Jerry were evolving musically at warp speed. He was both younger and had far less musical training. He knew how to play coffee house acoustic music, but he was way out of his league on electric guitar as the psychedelic era was ushered in. Given all that backdrop, this later Garcia take on Bobby’s playing is all the more awesome...

A buddy of mine wrote this. I find it intense and amazingly well said. Wish I'd written it. 😊

It's worth noting that nothing about his illness went public, much less that he’d started treatments just before the big DEAD 60 Golden Gate Park celebration. Much as I moaned about him taking over Garcia / Hunter gems he couldn’t properly sing, no matter - it was 100% his right to do so as he chose. You could argue it was Phil in the early years, but in balance there was no musician closer and with a greater kindred spirit to Jerry than Bobby Weir. And there’s a school of thought that in his lifetime Bobby played to more people than any musician ever. He was a non-stop musical machine for 60+ years! I played the following short playlist last night in honor of Bobby and I highly recommend it. Short, powerful, and covers I would argue Weir’s 3 greatest eras. Please play it as loud as possible… Jack Straw from Cal Expo 6-10-90 - use Sean Weber’s spaced omnis Let It Grow from William & Mary 4-15-78 - use the official release. Me & Bobby McGee from Winterland 11-11-73 - again, use the official release Jerry steals the show at the end of the first two selections, so save #3 for last; pure and perfect Bobby. When he got to the line, “I’d trade all my tomorrows, for one single yesterday” I got more than a little chocked up. RIP, Bobby Weir. You were a treasure.

Set 2 of that Cleveland show actually starts with Ramble On Rose, but no matter - it's still a compact looking 8 song 2nd set that packs a serious per song punch. The Here Come Sunshine is epic, which I'm sure DSO crushed!

This is a "just the facts" analysis of how the Dead historically used The Other One as a vehicle to introduce what one could argue as the coup de grâce of the show (the figurative, not the literary meaning 😉) - the Garcia ballad. It no surprise that Wharf Rat was far and away the most common paring, but I had a notion of measuring that against the other titans. So with a prerequisite shout out to https://www.gratefulsets.net , I present the following numbers.... The Other One -> Wharf Rat (164 times) Stella Blue (85) Black Peter (35) Morning Dew (22) Comes A Time (10) GDTRFB (9) - ok, not technically a ballad but sat in for one here and there Sing Me Back Home (8) - this surprised me The Wheel (6) - see GDTRFB notation Days Between (5) China Doll (4) Standing on the Moon (4) The transitional jams creating these segues are of course infinately more meaningful than any sheer numbers, and there are a few beauties off the top of my head, but that's what makes listening to Jerry's most tender moments so interesting vs. simply delineating them numerically. And moreover, one couldn't count on such a jam; often to be fair it was just The Other One clumsily pounding into a ballad. Exhibit infinity of why you never wanted to miss a moment. 😍

Tea - you turned me on to the Lay Me Down from McNichols run. Which while NOT as good as MSG in September is damn close. 😜

That's a righteous t-shirt! Think about the concept of Dark Star on one side of a 45rpm single. At less than 3 minutes IIRC. Ha. The infamous (to me at least) 6-23-93 Deer Creek version was 7 min at least. It came out of space and went into The Wheel. My quip was always The Wheel was longer, although I don't think that's technically. Damn close tough...

Not officially an elective until Rudolph (song #7!). Love how Pigpen keeps showing up in those two late 80s / early 90s sets.

Unique for the only time The Dead played Let It Rock, famous for Dark Star -> Spanish jam. I'm staying in North County San Diego two blocks above the "Coaster" rail line. They blow the fuck out of the horn coming through this town. Federal railroad regulations until the crossing is updated to current safety codes. Let It Rock has been on my mind. To wit: "engineer blows the whistle loud and long, can't stop the train we gotta let it roll on." 🚄

Amazing what they can do with the rhythm guitar / critical vocalist out last minute. Impressive looking flow to that, and raging I'm sure.

'85 only at Day Tripper, elective at Loose Lucy. Love the Phil / Jerry dual ballad slots after space, not to mention the Jimmy Cliff shout out with Harder They Come. Jerry loved that tune, in just another example of his musical breath.

Nice shut out to the Ithaca crowd, Mango. I've seen many a movie at the State back in the day, including numerous midnight shows like The Wall and Rocky Horror Picture Show. Ah, the good ol' days... Looking at that setlist one has to wonder if Jerry was under the weather, which he officially was at the London run to close the tour. But that was 10 days later. Hmmm... only 3 Jerry tunes out of 9 in set 1, no standard ballad, and a Bobby encore. Food for thought.

I like the "here, there, and the other place" flow to that. Almost certainly an elective as of Passenger, and unquestionably so at Hurts Me To. Nice!