China > Rider & Scarlet > Fire... all in the same show

[John A]

As I'm randomly want to do, the odd thought came to me today (in Muir Woods no less!) about how many times China > Rider as well as Scarlet > Fire appeared in the same show. Without much further consideration, I put the over / under at 10 times. In a shout out to count2 and www.gratefulsets.net, I knew said info could be gleaned with ease...

 

Well clearly I'm a good odds maker when it comes to this sort of minutia, because the actual number is 9 times... Ha!  ☺️ 

 

Twice in '79, twice in '80, 3 times in '81, once in '83, and once in '85. Predictably, each instance saw China > Rider in set 1 and Scarlet > Fire in set 2. (Technically one time was a Radio City acoustic show, so one might consider that sets 2 and 3.) In 6 of these shows, China > Rider closed set 1 and Scarlet > Fire opened set 2, as one might imagine.

 

I'm sure ya'll are relieved to gain this information. 😂

[BillK522]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one, JohnA.

Liking your post virtually.

79/02/03 instance the first China>Rider

in 95 shows, amazing that duo was

shelved for that long.  

Your thought provokes one in mine:

How many times were Help>Slip>Frank

and Scarlet>Fire played at the same

show? (Knowing I got one 90/10/31)

Well let's see...

Opening Gratefulsets.com, type, type.

What a know, nine times as well.

77/04/23  Springfield (S>F close the first)

90/06/15  Shoreline

90/10/31  London

91/10/31  Oakland (two halloweens in a row)

92/05/31  Las Vegas

93/04/03 Nassau

94/10/01  Boston

95/02/24  Oakland

95/05/26  Seattle

 

All 90's occurences opened the show

with H>S>F and opened the second set

with S>F.  Figure you were probably at

a couple of those.  

 

Praise DSO.

 

 

[Ammagamalin Crew]

14 shows that had both Shakedown Street with Scarlet > Fire: 

Dallas 12/22/78 >

Berlin 10/19/90.

Set openers as most would suspect.

Except 12/30/78 which had them both in a monster second set leading up to the infamous 12/31/78. No wonder 12/31/78 SF is so magical!

2  as encores, one of those was showcasing Brent first show helping to explain how the interplay between Brent and Jerry got so damn good !

Thank you gratefulsets developer and the prompts here to have some fun!

 

[John A]

Bill,

 

Yep, I caught 3 of the 9 HSF w/ S>F... and without even knowing it.

 

I consider those Oct '91 Oakland shows the last great run I caught, and arguably the last great run period. At least of 3 shows or more in a single venue.

[Mango]

I’ll play:

 

 one of the great combos for me is scarlet >fire estimated >eyes. When you get both of those combos in the same show….well…yeah. Right Chuck?

 

 Not that rare. 38 shows. Not all of them are uninterrupted- sometimes there is a song or 2 between. But always in the 2nd set and ALWAYS scarlet >fire first.

[Ammagamalin Crew]

To continue play,

l checked into a show closing threesome that I thought happened more often:

The Other One>

Wharf Rat>

Sugar Magnolia 

 

Started at (go figure)

Portchester 2/21/71

and continuing only 42 more times with the final in 

Boston 9/29/94.

 

Surprisingly 17 of those happened in 1971 and 11 more in 1972 with these two years making up more than half of the 43 leaving only 15 being played during the next twenty three years.

 

I really thought it happened more during my 83-95 run, but am corrected by gratefulsets.

 

I guess the 12/30/85 soured me on these three because that was my first NYE run where I came in thinking it was going to be 12/31/78. I mean come on wasn't 1985 a crazy good year? 

I also went into NYE trying to make up for not being at the heralded Richmond VA doses, when actually that was the only TOO>WR>SM I ever witnessed.

 

"Goes to show you don't ever know..."

 

[Brian NJ]

I remember hearing a seamless Scarlet into Touch of Gray. Think done twice in July early '80s

[Greg from Chestertown]

Didn’t they do a couple of scarlet/touch/fires? Maybe a new year’s show? Or was that sugar Mags/scarlet/fire? I had a cassette that had that on it. I labeled it 007 because it was as hot as James Bond. What’d they play? I don’t know but it was great! 

[chuckvegas]

15 hours ago, Mango said:

I’ll play:

 

 one of the great combos for me is scarlet >fire estimated >eyes. When you get both of those combos in the same show….well…yeah. Right Chuck?

 

 Not that rare. 38 shows. Not all of them are uninterrupted- sometimes there is a song or 2 between. But always in the 2nd set and ALWAYS scarlet >fire first.

The GOAT. The white whale. Accept no substitute. 😃😃

[Ammagamalin Crew]

No, only once on Friday the 13th in July of 1984 with the final Dark Star (until the warlocks at Hampton in '89) as an encore. That's probably where 007 came from on your tape case ~ July. 

This is the show Dark Star recreated last year when then played The Greek Theater in Berzerkley. 

 

Scarlet > Touch didn't happened until mid 80's when it was disappointing since we didn't get to drown in our laughter and be dead to the core  ⚡🎶🛞🇱🇷🔥

7 minutes ago, Ammagamalin Crew said:

  ⚡🎶🛞🇱🇷🔥

 

5 hours ago, Greg from Chestertown said:

Didn’t they do a couple of scarlet/touch/fires? Maybe a new year’s show? Or was that sugar Mags/scarlet/fire? I had a cassette that had that on it. I labeled it 007 because it was as hot as James Bond. What’d they play? I don’t know but it was great! 

 

[Ammagamalin Crew]

8 hours ago, Brian NJ said:

I remember hearing a seamless Scarlet into Touch of Gray. Think done twice in July early '80s

5 in 1984

2 in 1985

Philly 3/25 started this combination for 1986

 

Gracias gratefulsets and everyone here who lives for the dead

🕉️

[John A]

Love seeing people's juices flowing off my original post!

 

Circling back to Grateful Sets (and in a Garcia Band shout out don't sleep on https://jgb.gratefulsets.net which is equally righteous), I present the following...

 

Scarlet appeared 75 times without Fire, while Fire appeared just 12 times without Scarlet. For a more balanced equation, China appeared 26 times (although to be fair maybe more do to lack of historical data in 1968), while Rider appeared 23 times without China.

[BillK522]

This thread needs its name changed to

something like Joy of Gratefulsets.

Today's wormhole involves second set

closers.  My routine of checking the

day's setlists landed me on 79/10/31 Nassau,

where they closed with Truckin'.  Let the

adventure begin.  How many times did

that happen?  Ten Times. (71/04/06-79/12/03)

Englishtown the biggie.  I wonder what other

songs closed the second set a handful of

times?  Click on Songs across the head banner,

Click on sort by Closer.  Answers.  Click on the

number of Closers, setlists from each show.

Answers.  Genius work, count2.

The entries that prompted the post:

 

Promised Land closed the first set 147 times,

it closed the second set once, 80/10/10.

The Music Never Stopped closed the first 

set 162 times, it closed the second set once

76/07/14.  End wormhole.

 

Praise DSO.

 

 

[John A]

I would call the Binghamton '77 set 2 Truckin' closer the "biggie" 😆  Tour closer to boot.

 

How many times was Bertha part of a "proper encore"?  I would have said never, until I encountered one on Sirius XM during my drive to Southern CA today...

[Greg from Chestertown]

What about Bertha/ Good Lovin’ versus stand alone Berthas.  I’m guessing the pairing was early on then those two songs went their separate ways. 

[Ammagamalin Crew]

On 11/1/2025 at 2:07 AM, John A said:

I would call the Binghamton '77 set 2 Truckin' closer the "biggie" 😆  Tour closer to boot.

 

How many times was Bertha part of a "proper encore"?  I would have said never, until I encountered one on Sirius XM during my drive to Southern CA today...

 One time 8/5/1979 Oakland with the white whale mentioned above: S>F>E>E

and it was with Good Lovin'  !!!