Forum MVP anddave Posted December 16, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 This is my little wrap-up of the singing controversy. Seriously don't read it. Spend your time on another thread. First, I certainly do understand that these are all opinions and I do respect everyone's opinions even though it may at times appear otherwise due to my heavy-handed serving of my own opinions. Anyway my main objection to some of the critiques of Phil and Bobby singing is the harsh and insulting lnguage of the criticisms. I will admit that I do clearly hear the so-called shatnerization, but it is Bobby's artistic choice and it seems to me that the opinion not being respected here is Bobby's. People act like as if JK isn't being allowed to sing at all when in fact he is singing a lot! Second, I do understand (first-hand!!) that DSO fans have enjoyed a very high vocal standard in general and have every right to be less-than enthused about Furthur's overall singing picture, as compared to DSO. It is a very clear and obvious fact for anyone with ears that DSO ensemble vocals are top-shelf all the time every time. It occurs to me, however, that maybe part of everyone's impression of JK as a great singer derives from the whole-greater-than-parts-ness of the DSO vocals. (For sxample consider Gommorrah from Lakewood 2006.) JK is a very good singer, but DSO altogether is what (for me anyway) makes him sound so good vocally. By himself he's good but but with DSO he's great. With Furthur he is doing very well, but doesn't have the other DSO vocalists. Furthur is a completely different vocal puzzle (ironically) than DSO is, and to expect it to be ideal this early is unrealistic. Furthurmore, to expect it to match your historical sensibilities is (to me) opposite of what one ought to expect. See, I told you not to read it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP chuckvegas Posted December 16, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 All the print that fits the news... Somehow I'm doubting that this is an end of the matter, although 'tis a consummation devoutly to be wished... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP anddave Posted December 16, 2009 Author Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 it's an end to my particular bitchin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deadheadmike Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 it's an end to my particular bitchin sure . but I like your post and I agree with it . and Bobby's opinion not being represented is because his opinion don't count . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP anddave Posted December 16, 2009 Author Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 and Bobby's opinion not being represented is because his opinion don't count . Just for completeness, i said Bobby's opinion is not being respected. It's certainly represented on stage and in the recordings. and seriously, would you tell another poster here that their opinion didn't count? then why treat Bobby that way? ...or Pfiil? I mean isn't it just the pinnacle of irony that DSO fans, having endured so much undeserved harsh criticism, unfounded speculation, assumed motivations, etc etc etc, over the 12 years past would then dish out the very same toward Phil and Bobby? My whole rant here is because DSO and JK deserve to be better represented by the diplomacy of their fans. Would you want to be JK and have to read what some of you have written about his new bandmates? I wouldn't. ok that's seriously it. See, I told you not to read this!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deadheadmike Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Just for completeness, i said Bobby's opinion is not being respected.It's certainly represented on stage and in the recordings. and seriously, would you tell another poster here that their opinion didn't count? then why treat Bobby that way? ...or Pfiil? I mean isn't it just the pinnacle of irony that DSO fans, having endured so much undeserved harsh criticism, unfounded speculation, assumed motivations, etc etc etc, over the 12 years past would then dish out the very same toward Phil and Bobby? My whole rant here is because DSO and JK deserve to be better represented by the diplomacy of their fans. Would you want to be JK and have to read what some of you have written about his new bandmates? I wouldn't. ok that's seriously it. See, I told you not to read this!!!!! Sorry Dave , misread respected and thought I read represented ... I was only trying to make a funny anyway . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP anddave Posted December 16, 2009 Author Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 funny and you did, but I just had to make sure that the respect angle was not overlooked. now about the upcoming dso tour........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deadheadmike Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 and you did, but I just had to make sure that the respect angle was not overlooked.now about the upcoming dso tour........ No tour for me till summer ... only possibility for a show of any kind is Furthur Atlantic City and thats a slim to none possibility ... more important stuff to take care of ... but summer is not that far away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutrino Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Would you want to be JK and have to read what some of you have written about his new bandmates? I wouldn't. I always appreciate getting honest opinions, whether positive or negative. I suspect JK does too. Despite some suggestions to the contrary, Phil and Bob do not walk on water. As original members of the Grateful Dead, they deserve respect. However, it is not wrong to state personal views on what they could be doing to improve the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP anddave Posted December 16, 2009 Author Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 it is not wrong to state personal views on what they could be doing to improve the band. agreed. different from accusing them of destroying jerry's songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP VincentPuleo Posted December 16, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 can someone show me an example of this William Shatner thing. I am a bit younger and do not know who he is... I still don't think Bobby is making a conscious decision to sing like that. Bobby is Bobby so If he sang Sugeree in '89 or something the phrasing would still be similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutrino Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 agreed. different from accusing them of destroying jerry's songs. Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonomajon Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I always appreciate getting honest opinions, whether positive or negative. I suspect JK does too.Despite some suggestions to the contrary, Phil and Bob do not walk on water. As original members of the Grateful Dead, they deserve respect. However, it is not wrong to state personal views on what they could be doing to improve the band. I have a question...and please don't take it wrong, but I am curious as to what your experience is with seeing the Grateful Dead...ie..what time frame and how many times? peace...jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutrino Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 can someone show me an example of this William Shatner thing. I am a bit younger and do not know who he is...I still don't think Bobby is making a conscious decision to sing like that. Bobby is Bobby so If he sang Sugeree in '89 or something the phrasing would still be similar. Dude--you NEED to go out to your neighborhood video store and rent some of the original Star Trek episodes ASAP!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutrino Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I have a question...and please don't take it wrong, but I am curious as to what your experience is with seeing the Grateful Dead...ie..what time frame and how many times?peace...jon Hey Jon, First saw the GD at Winterland in 1973. Was dragged to Winterland by a bunch of deadhead friends in my freshmen dorm in Berkeley. I couldn't figure out what the hell they were so excited about from the albums. About 3 songs in during the first set, I leaned over to my friends and said something like "HOLY SHIT!!! I GET IT NOW!!". Don't know exactly how many shows I've seen, but would say it is somewhere between 130-150. Almost all shows were near the bay area, but took a few fun trips furthur such as Southern CA, Red Rocks and Las Vegas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonomajon Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hey Jon,First saw the GD at Winterland in 1973. Was dragged to Winterland by a bunch of deadhead friends in my freshmen dorm in Berkeley. I couldn't figure out what the hell they were so excited about from the albums. About 3 songs in during the first set, I leaned over to my friends and said something like "HOLY SHIT!!! I GET IT NOW!!". Don't know exactly how many shows I've seen, but would say it is somewhere between 130-150. Almost all shows were near the bay area, but took a few fun trips furthur such as Southern CA, Red Rocks and Las Vegas. Nice thx...for the reply...I got on the bus in 73 as well...first show RFK...DC...I'm sure we attended many shows together as I moved to Cali in 80'...see you at the civic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP gr8fulpair Posted December 16, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 This is my little wrap-up of the singing controversy. Seriously don't read it. Spend your time on another thread.First, I certainly do understand that these are all opinions and I do respect everyone's opinions even though it may at times appear otherwise due to my heavy-handed serving of my own opinions. Anyway my main objection to some of the critiques of Phil and Bobby singing is the harsh and insulting lnguage of the criticisms. I will admit that I do clearly hear the so-called shatnerization, but it is Bobby's artistic choice and it seems to me that the opinion not being respected here is Bobby's. People act like as if JK isn't being allowed to sing at all when in fact he is singing a lot! Anddave, I think if we fade out all the unnecessary words, adverbs, synonyms and hyperbole we are able to get to the root of your message.......LOL! Just kiddin'. I don't want you coming after me with those heavy hands.... Your message is well done... I mean... well, done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutrino Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Nice thx...for the reply...I got on the bus in 73 as well...first show RFK...DC...I'm sure we attended many shows together as I moved to Cali in 80'...see you at the civic... Great! We may have been standing right next to each other at the Greek or Frost. Didn't miss one of those great shows! I'm really looking forward to the civic in two weeks! Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP anddave Posted December 16, 2009 Author Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 can someone show me an example of this William Shatner thing. I am a bit younger and do not know who he is... Ok, William Shatner is an actor, getting old now, but was Captain Kirk in original Star Trek. Some of his speeches in that show, like the ones where he talks computers to death and stuff like that, have a stilted kind of unrhythm where he pauses at not-exactly-grammatically-necessary spots and then rushes ahead through the following phrase. Dr. Barry's press release thread has a reasonable printed approximation of the technique represented by ellipses. Shatner actually went on to record songs which he famously retooled in like fashion. Many consider those recordings to be disrespectful atrocities. Others consider them hilarious send-ups. I don't know if it's actually confirmed anywhere what Shatner himself thinks, whether he was serious and to what extent etc. To hear a track where, imho, this actually works very well, I recommend "That's Me Trying" from the "Has Been" album. I say it's a very moving track. (In)Famouser tracks from earlier Shatner recordings include Lucy in the Sky and Tambourine Man. So, if you listen to some of that stuff then it will probably be pretty clear. Enjoy. Anddave, I think if we fade out all the unnecessary words, adverbs, synonyms and hyperbole heh that is pretty funny alright! ...all words are unnecessary anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebiz Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Am I the only one who followed the request and didn't read any of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP anddave Posted December 16, 2009 Author Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Am I the only one who followed the request and didn't read any of this? until now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taper Ron Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 can someone show me an example of this William Shatner thing. I am a bit younger and do not know who he is...I still don't think Bobby is making a conscious decision to sing like that. Bobby is Bobby so If he sang Sugeree in '89 or something the phrasing would still be similar. William Shatner sings "Rocketman" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP anddave Posted December 16, 2009 Author Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 how could I have forgotten Rocket Man?! THANKS TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutrino Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 William Shatner sings "Rocketman" I'm sorry, but I couldn't help but think of Bobby singing Sugeree while watching that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum MVP VincentPuleo Posted December 16, 2009 Forum MVP Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 William Shatner sings "Rocketman" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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