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3 minutes ago, PoetryGirl said:

The ability to participate in collective thought processes that modify behavior and change the world

You mean like having a nuclear war....that would sure change the world. Perspective can be tricky.

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We still have instincts but we have clearly evolved in other ways. For someone or thing to look down and make those judgements would be to look only at the surface. We're obviously different. I'm not going to sit around and argue about that.

 

We, as humans, have the ability to consciously evolve. We may choose not to most of the time but the ability is there. We have strong intellect capable of perceiving ourselves as separate from nature. While this may be the source of much depression for our minds it also grants us the ability to reflect and intellectually cooperate. Look at how fast the world has changed under the rule of human in relation to the vast amount of time that precedes us. Sure, we've fucked things up in a lot of ways but we possess the same potential for cooperation. I'm not saying we're better- in fact I think we need to learn from the models of nature to get back on a harmonies path. But I don't agree with arguments that reduce us to animal instincts and I think they are a lame cop out. 

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Y'all are getting me so.pumprd for Jubilee with all this academic and quick witted words.  

So busy with work... wish I could keep up, but y'all's words for sure show your jubilee excitement.  

I would call this discussion, foreplay;)!!  

Will comment later, but I do recognize, Webster's definition might not seem to correctly relate to terms of copulation; however, there is a reason s&m and bondage is sort of s thing.  It's s spectrum for sure, but there are reasons girls liked to be spanked, hair pulled, tied up, dirty words whispered in the ear.  If it was just one women I did this with, it would be considered an outlier, but it's a whole fucking industry, which means a bit of collective.  

Are you sure women don't enjoy submitting?  I live it when the time is right.  It feels good to let go of inhibitions, and control!!  To let someone take from you pleasure, is in itself pleasurable.  The bedroom is a fun place to explore individual phycology, as sexual desire does reveal about subconscious motivations and experience.  

I submit that submission is a integral part of both relational and sexual interaction.  It's not bounded to just women, but it is more prevalent.  Spank me daddy is s very normal action spoke by many couples.  

Why, daddy is in charge, and we all submit at s time or two to our parents. They were our first God.  Just as we kneel for prayer, so does a women for a man.  Humans are s very arrogant species.  We believe we have control over nature and see separate.  Far from the truth.  We are still part and essentially rely on nature for existence.  Humans have not made a dent on anything earthly.  Geologic time scale makes us and what we have done to change our environment insignificant!!  1 volcano, say Yellowstone caldera, would make everything for the past 10, 000 years unrecognizable.  

Apart from nature? We wish.  We have a finite view of a 3dimensional universe.  We can even see all the other dimensions, we have physcis, intellect yes, so we can explore further of the natural world around us, but that to is limited, and given to us by nature.  To say we are separate is arrogant.  Anyone who walks across the room to take another drop knows instantly we are absolutely organic with the world.  With that, I feel Arron is playing a witted devil's advocate, as I know when he spins, like quarks, I am spinning in another dimension in the same place but rotating in another direction.  

I love when y'all get deep.  More to come, as I lied.  I can't stop feeding into this 50 shades.....nor can many other women.  It's why the book was nytimes bestsellar for how long?  It's odd how so many women love reading about submission;)!!! When it's true in other realities that women only submitted before the 1950's.  Maybe women miss the 50's.  Maybe they got what they wanted, and realized they got what they wished for:(

Yep 50 shades really helps prove a point, we are animals, we can't escape million years of evaloution, and women love submitting!!  Why else would they buy the book, and watch the movie?

Rude.....I agree with you to a point, but I am flexible in spectrum of thought.  Yes...birth control changed sex and society for ever. Victorians were not as open about sex as we are today!!  

To much....just to much thumb typing.  Hope you make it to jubilee.  Be nice to have your energy around!! 

 

 

 

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Women instinctfully need to feel protected, and look for that quality in men.  Broad strokes, but true......

Logically someone that protects you, is in it self a more powerful entity than yourself.  Who fights wars?  I know, women....I was in the military, don't argue that with me.  How many women seals are there?  

So.  A protector, a protected women.  Who is more powerful, are they equal?  If so, why would need one need to protect another.  Equal means equal chance of survival.  Not true...men fight wars.  Men go first.  Protect the women and the children.  Why?  Who wants to see a hurt flower.  Snapping a stem no big deal!!

Back to work.  Wish I could project my thoughts and not have to spell them:)!!!

 

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It's also possible we are all speaking truths, one does not denote the other. The capacity of our words to express that which we experience, see in the world is severely limited. Do I think we are separate? No. That is the illusional of the ego, and a delusional we are all addicted to. My words are not black in white, everything exists in degrees.

Might I suggest that perhaps the desire to be spanked, use of word daddy, etc, often comes from abuse. I've never been with anyone who has desired those things. Many ways to be... We are all attached at least to some degree to our story. And all of our stories are true to us yet simultaneously limiting and potentially changeable. We are the writers, our life is the book, and the next chapter can always bring change, something new. 

 

Playing devil's advocate? No, I just don't agree with the way you choose to word it. Or perhaps my experience just speaks to a different truth. I'm having a rough go here, health and energy have been low so I'm sorry if I responded in a combative way. 

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Not comparative at all Mango...and doubt I will bring this up at all as I plan to have 2 much fun 

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3 hours ago, PoetryGirl said:

The ability to participate in collective thought processes that modify behavior and change the world

I suspect that many other animals and even some plants have a collective thought process which they use to modify thee woods or plains they live in.

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I'm with Doc. They thinking more than we know especially the plants. We just can't undertstand it because it's not a similar process to our own. 

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When is enough enough?

Too much of this thread is way too much. 

Lots of pontificating. And for what? Friends and brothers/sisters read these words and feel hurt, or anger, or surprise that people they know and like/love feel the way they do, let alone express it in public like this. Some defend their words and some rise to debate them. Some just read it the same way we slow down to look at a car crash on the side of the highway. We have to look even though we know it will be ugly and painful. That's me.

Sadly many just shake their heads and feel like walking away. Away from the forums, away from the community and maybe even distancing from friends. 

What is the point? Nobody here is going to change anyone's mind on these philosophical/anthropological/societal/ethical/evolutionary issues. We are adults. Our basic world view is pretty well etched in our brains by now. Sure we can change. Beliefs can evolve. But not based on what we read and write here on the forums.

So do we write in a valiant but futile attempt to change hearts and minds? Do we write just to proclaim to the world what we believe just because we do? Do we write to provoke feelings in others and elicit responses? What is the point? Not much.

And to me there is too much negative vibration in all of this. It hurts and it harms. I just don't see the point. And at the jubilee I would ask, no beg, that anyone who wants to continue the debate/conversation to do it where I am not. I will be at The jubilee to have fun with the music and people that I love. If there was redeeming value in any of this maybe I would feel different, but I don't see anything redemptive. Just words and feelings. And maybe damaged friendships or some cracks under the surface. 

And let's keep this place a safe one to discuss everything DSO and Grateful Dead. That's what it's all about. And it may seem like I'm calling people out.  I'm really not. I'm calling people in. Calling everyone back home. To our forums home. Where we all share the most important bond right here, the love of this band and this music that binds us together. Remember this is the dysfunctional family that we choose to have. So let's keep it together. 

Dr. B

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Emotionally, nothing anyone has wrote bothers me. I love the free exchange of ideas, I learn from them.  Many times I reinforced by the reaction of my words.  Other times, I do sit and reflect.  

Several in this dialogue has changed my view on some things, is never to old or to stuck in my ways to learn.  

My apologies if some of you have been offended.  I am not offended.  I love it, and the further away I can get from, how is the weather,  how ya doing, your mom still alive, the more engaged I am.  I have read everyones words, and what I got out of it?

Thankful and greatful I know people that can and will discuss some things that others feel as either uncomfortable or not worthy of discussion.  Mangonhss pulled out some serious thought in defense of his posture.  Fucking cool.  Some witty one or two liners, but really, we all love music that is multifaceted.  It's deep, and that's why y'all love it.  I love y'all because your deep into more than the facade of Facebook, and other things that always paint  "normal, pretty, and accomimodating" 

I .always open for discussion beyond what  dso played last night.  I think most of yall are brilliant, and I feed from your minds, as I hope many here have fed from mine.  You might not agree, but that more cool thsn agreeing with me.

 

I am really sorry if the subject matter is to personal, to explicit, to real for conceptualization, humor, but i am thankful for y'all passion!!! 

 

Really, did I hurt friends?  Damage relationships?  If so.. this GW guy, which did make me wonder who the fuck you were talking about.  George Washington, gw bush.  No it was me, and I don't need to be the wrecking ball rude described.  

I will refrain from further post, as it's a bit stuffy in here!!  Bye GW, limbo seems less dramatic!!!

I will get tr to delete me again.  I seem to be to much in my showing my feathers!!

 

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I'm always for discussion. And seeing as other things such as sports are discussed here I think it's fair game. There's more to life than the grateful Dead. I love discussions of this nature and am definitely upset at anyone for anything said.

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3 hours ago, ducats said:

a discussion?

Yes, like contributing ideas and whole sentences instead of just pointed one liners.

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I love you all for being open minded and I too like discussion. I do it to express myself from a heart based intent and the amount of change wrought is not my charge. Expectations and attachments are empty forms because they leave you disappointed. The outcomes of my expression I cannot be tied to, as long as I am expressing my personal best and intentionally expressing my viewpoint from a humble, kind space. And I stand in my power without thinking my place is greater or lesser than another's viewpoint. If it is real and from a place of truth then it should be expressed in kindness. you choose what you create and do with your life. if you plant ice.....life is too short not to be epic and made the most of everyday To save a life is to save the world. And do we not save life in the small kindnesses we share, no matter the size of the gift? 

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1 hour ago, Darbysdad2 said:

Aaron...from the blue line....shoots,,,and scores!

a pointed one liner. gotta love em.

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4 minutes ago, PoetryGirl said:

I love you all for being open minded and too like discussion. I do it express myself from a heart based intent and the amount of change wrought is not my charge. Expectations and attachments are empty forms because they leave you disappointed. The outcomes of my expression I cannot be tied to, as long as I am expressing my personal best and intentionally expressing my viewpoint from a humble, kind space. And I stand in my power without thinking my place is greater or lesser than another's viewpoint. If it is real and from a place of truth then it should be expressed in kindness. you choose what you create and do with your life. it is too short not to be epic. To save a life is to save the world. And do we not save life in the small kindnesses we share, no matter the size of the gift? 

Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand

Says, "don't you see"?

u r incredible PG

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2 hours ago, Mango said:

Yes, like contributing ideas and whole sentences instead of just pointed one liners.

i'm sorry Mango but Sunny lost me a long time ago on this one - probably my bad, but as u know I can't help myself most of the time

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If my words did glow with the gold of sunshine
And my tunes were played on the harp unstrung
Would you hear my voice come through the music
Would you hold it near as it were your own?

It's a hand-me-down, the thoughts are broken 
Perhaps they're better left unsung
I don't know, don't really care 
Let there be songs to fill the air

Ripple in still water
When there is no pebble tossed
Nor wind to blow 

Reach out your hand if your cup be empty
If your cup is full may it be again
Let it be known there is a fountain
That was not made by the hands of men 

There is a road, no simple highway
Between the dawn and the dark of night
And if you go no one may follow 
That path is for your steps alone

Ripple in still water
When there is no pebble tossed
Nor wind to blow 

You who choose to lead must follow
But if you fall you fall alone
If you should stand then who's to guide you?
If I knew the way I would take you home

Written by Jerome J. Garcia, Robert C. Hunter • Copyright © Universal Music Publishing Group

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how about The Fat Man making one of his only songs the band's best from a lyrical standpoint, and ofcourse adding his guitar to make the other one (Box of Rain) become a pair of songs for the ages

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Pretty sure the thread drift on this thread may be a top 10 one. Not sure how the thoight of a blacked out show ended up here.........

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35 minutes ago, rudedogggg said:

Pretty sure the thread drift on this thread may be a top 10 one. Not sure how the thoight of a blacked out show ended up here.........

No more time to tell how, this is the season of what...

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